Game Design Concepts Continued…

After finalizing the concept of moving everything to the visual-based dice icons mechanic, I found in my own playtests that I’d simplified a little too much. There wasn’t enough differentiation in weapon ranges and target movement to encourage tactics. This was supported almost universally through playtest feedback.

Now there was a few other problems that arose that were relatively easy to deal with. For example because the dice are so much smaller on Destroyers (to simulate both their smaller profile, speed and agility), they can be difficult to hit. However, initially I’d given them too high of Breach Numbers, making them far too powerful.

Another silly issue is that the Stern and Bow Breach Numbers were relatively in line with the Port and Starboard values. Not only is that not accurate for wet navy ships, but it also reduced the need for maneuvering tactics.

Both of those were very easy fixes. I dropped all Destroyer Breach Numbers by 2 (regardless of Location), then I dropped ALL ship Bow Breach Numbers by 1 and ALL ship Stern Breach Numbers by 2. So yes, that meant the Sterns on the Destroyers dropped by 4. It felt huge, but once you dove in a played with multiple ship Types together the Destroyers instantly felt right where they should be.

So those type of issues were relatively easy to fix. But weapon ranges and target movement proved a much thornier proposition. I kicked this one around for weeks trying to find the most elegant solution. And at the end of the day, I believe I did. In both instances it may not reflect ‘reality’ as well as other games, but within the game aesthetic of Leviathans, I felt it worked just fine.

First was the weapons. Originally I simply had a chart of weapons: 3″, 6″, 9″, 12″. And the chart listed the dice to roll, the type of attacks it could make and the range in hexes. Pretty standard. However, with the dice/color coding option starting to open my eyes to all the possible ways I could continue to make the game easier to play, I decided to move almost all of that directly onto the Ship Card Slot for a given weapon.

5 IN Gun Battery Slot.jpg

138mm Gun Battery Slot.jpg

As you can see by the two Ship Card excerpts above, in addition to the name, we’ve now got damage, range, as well as the type of attacks a given weapon can make (the triangle means it can also perform a Bracketing Fire attack in addition to a standard attack). And in doing so I was able to easily split the range into two brackets to help encourage movement. For those Gun Battery Slots above, anything up to six hexes you grab the yellow dice (D8) and add it to the Breach Roll; anything 7 to 12 hexes you grab the blue dice (D6) and add it to the Breach Roll.

Another great side benefit of dumping a chart and moving everything onto the Ship Cards is it allowed us to embrace the real world flavors of the various style and type of weapons fielded by different factions. Originally all ships mounted 5″ Gun Batteries…but the French didn’t use that type of terminology. So while the ‘game mechanics’ of those two guns are identical, one feels more French (138mm) and one more English (5 IN), which really helps to mold each factions play identity.

Another great side effect of this move is that it allows us to really play around with the dice and with ranges to simulate the different weapons available. For example, if I’d stuck with a ‘chart’, it would have 4 different weapons on it and any time I want to add a new weapon I’d need to try and publish a new chart. By moving to the Slots, though, you can play around with different damage/range profiles to increase game tactics with ease. After all, if you’ve done the homework, the range of weapons available during this time in the real world is astonishing…being able to fold that breadth into the game is cool.

3 IN Gun Battery Slot.jpg

75mm Gun Battery Slot.jpg

65mm Gun Battery Slot.jpg

If you look at the three Ship Card excerpts above, you’ll see what I mean. The 3 IN and the 75mm Gun Batteries are identical; the 3 IN is off a British Ship Card and the 75mm is off a French Ship Card. You’ve then got the 65mm Gun Battery, which you’ll notice has the same Damage Dice as the 75mm, but shaves off 2 hexes at the top end, meaning it’s a gun you need to get close to use…and since the French Pontrbriand Light Cuirser mounts 4 of these on a side…don’t let that ship stay too close!

Finally, I used the same concept when dealing with target movement. Again, I was hoping to completely avoid this, but playtesting showed we simply couldn’t avoid creating some mechanic to help accentuate the need for tactical movement.

Location Dice.jpg

Looking at the Ship Card expert above, if a ship has moved out of its hex, you grab a black die and add it to the Breach Roll (the dice icon is against a green background, as in ‘go’ to help you remember) and if the ship didn’t move out of its hex you grab two red dice and add them to the Breach Roll (the dice icon is against a red background, as in ’stop’ to help you remember).

As a final comment on all of this, there may be some of you wondering if this game is getting too complex and is perhaps something you wouldn’t want to play…especially with me harping about how ’simple’ I’m trying to keep it, relatively speaking. Ultimately that’s going to be your call, obviously. But at its basic level (leaving out the fun Captain’s Manual plug-in rules I’ll talk about down the line) it’s exceptionally intuitive, with everything visual based. As mentioned in my previous blog, even with the ‘added’ complexity of the split ranges and twin target movement dice, it’s still a case of simply looking at your Ship Card and your opponents Ship Card, making sure it’s in range and in the right firing/damage arcs and then grabbing up the various dice as indicated and tossing them to see if you’ve cracked your opponent’s armor!

See ya next duty shift!

Randall

Comments (15)

HawktelOctober 8th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

I got to say, I’m not overly worried about how simple they system is, but that it won’t be complex enough. I dumped a collection of 20 years of 40K recently after I decided that the next edition was going to be about as complex as Shutes and ladders.

Captain JenkinsOctober 8th, 2009 at 4:49 pm

Having played a demo at GenCon, trust me that explaining is hard, but after two to three turns of rolling, it sort of sinks in and gets much easier. You develop a checklist; Crew? (get the Crew die) Aspect? (get that die) Movement? (get that die) and so on.

HawktelOctober 8th, 2009 at 7:56 pm

You miss the point perhaps. Easier isn’t really a selling point to me, or many people I play with.Monsterapocolyps was to easy. Its kow dead in my area. How’s this game going to avoid that?

StCptMaraOctober 8th, 2009 at 10:41 pm

@hawktel, I played a demo at GenCon..
Monsterocalypse was pretty much about swarming your opponent
with the same cheap units, and, on top of that, it was collectible.

From what I saw at the demo, this is a game that focuses on tactical
maneuvre. Heck, big thing I hope is that there are more pieces quickly
after the game comes out, so that the fleets are not always going to be the
same ships every time…That is my big concern for this game.

Captain JenkinsOctober 8th, 2009 at 11:31 pm

Didn’t I see that the starter will concentrate on two fleets? I agree with StCptMara, I have seen too many games wither before enough units are produced to even make the game feasible. (WarZone anyone?)

HawktelOctober 9th, 2009 at 5:58 am

I hope another expansion set hits the shelves within 4 months.

RandallOctober 9th, 2009 at 7:58 am

Thanks for all the great comments!

The way I’m trying to balance ‘too simple’ on the base end is to provide a host of ‘plug and play’ options on the top end. For example, the base box set will have three short rulebooks in it: Lieutenant’s Manual (quick-start rules), Commander’s Manual (core rules) and Captain’s Manual (enhanced rules). In the Captain’s Manual is a host of additional options that expand movement, combat and so on, for a variety of tastes and styles (specifics on those rules I’ll get into later on).

This both allows the base to remain as simple as I can get away with while still making the game tactically fun at that level, and then it allows for far more depth of play. Most importantly, IMO, it allows each player group to determine the type and style of depth of play they want to experience and enjoy, so each group is tailoring Leviathans play to themselves. Your group is more about maneuvering than combat, then you toss in all the enhanced movement rules while ignoring most of the combat rules…or you like combat far more than movement so you keep movement the same and stack on all the extra combat…and so on.

Just FYI…

EwanOctober 9th, 2009 at 9:45 am

Like the idea of Lieutenant’s, Commander’s and the Captain’s manuals as you can learn at your own speed.

BobOctober 12th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

how much eill the startyer set cost?

RandallOctober 12th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

We don’t yet have those details for release, yet.

Randall

MartinOctober 13th, 2009 at 4:27 am

Please, don’t make the game to complex. There’s already a lot of what some people call “intellectually challenging” and others call “hardcore friggin complex” games, yet there are few games that are simple but elegant. I hope you’re not aiming at the Grognard demographic but at a wider audience. While I can understand that some people think of 40K as “Chutes and Ladders pt 2″, I do not share that opinion, and I’m absolutely not dumb. It’d be great to have this game be accessible to more casual gamers as well; it has a great setting that shouldn’t be kept to a confined circle of elite rule masters.

darknightOctober 13th, 2009 at 10:40 am

good idea with the three rule sets, personally i like a chalenging in depth game, but sometimes you just want to sort off “plug n play”.
i play a certain ccg that i have a lot to do with as well and that uses 2 rule books, easy and hard, well done

SparxOctober 14th, 2009 at 12:07 pm

So how does damage exactly work?

What is the number you have to roll to beat? In other words what is the armor rating of the ship? (where is it locate?)

JoeOctober 20th, 2009 at 12:48 pm

Sparx,

Refer to the last picture. The numbers on the left (11, 12, 12, 14, etc) represent the armor value for that location, and each location is numbered 1-6. When firing on a ship, you roll your damage dice along with a d6 to find the hit location. If the damage dice rolled beat the armor value (or tie?) of the location rolled on the d6, that location is lost. So, if you were attacking with a gun and the hit location die rolled a 5, you would need to roll beat a 15 on your damage dice to destroy that location.

During the demo, we rolled the location die along with all the damage dice for that attack.

SparxOctober 20th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

Cool, thanks

what if you were to attack again and ended up hitting the same number again? what happens?

lastly could you tell us roughly how big the stat cards will be for the ships. I read that the cards at the demo were over sized for demo purposes.

Are we looking at poker sized cards or something bigger?

thanks

-John

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