So far the story is really why I like the game there are several ship based
combat wargames with good rules but few have an excellent storyline to back them
up (Battlefleet Gothic is one of the few that does) and the ones that do often are historical or have a long time in the making (BFG). Can’t wait to see mor stuff
about Jean-Bart and the Dunquerque.

Pardon my spelling i’m tired.

I’m also hoping that “hobby’ism,” to coin a phrase, gets some consideration. In my opinion, story is key to wanting to be a part of the universe. Second comes appearance; If I don’t like the way it looks, I’ll never play it. If I love a mini, I want to see the rules for it. So rules are ultimately the frosting.
Randall has nodded to the ‘vanilla’ reference of some armies. I think this plays directly into the painting, or hobbyist, aspect as well. Some are fine with playing with pre-painted models, but personally, I would rather put my own little nuances into a paint job. To me, Prepainted = vanilla and I’ll pass. I think that a big part of this game will be the ‘commanding your own ship (not boat ’cause they go underwater)’ mentality and prepainted takes away from that because the game goes from ‘yours versus mine’ to ‘we are reenacting the battle where the HMS Dreadnought ‘sinks’ the Oni. Neither one of us want to play the side that goes down, so let’s roll for it.” This is honestly one of the things that keeps me away from historicals (that and obviously the aesthetics)
So i guess I’m saying, the fluff has been awesome, the concept is a unique twist, and the rules are obviously being reviewed over and over with lots of thought. Please don’t focus on the gameplay aspect of the game without giving just as much attention to the modelling (painting, etc.) aspect. In my opinion, it’ll help gamers like me REALLY be able to get into it.

Don’t like the idea of unpainted minis.

Don’t have the time to paint minis, still waiting to hear whether or not the ships will be pre-painted. If they are not, I’ll just stick my gaming bucks with Wizards of the Coast and FFG.

I think the geostrategical balance will be the thing to be watched after the most, in such a not-too-unfamiliar as the Belle Epoque ( litterally, the Fine Epoch, a period starting just before the 20th century and ending with WW1 *wink*). How will it be alterd by such a radical technological development? Obviously, it has stopped the closer ties between ages-old rivals France & England, and shifted France’s focus (partially at least ) from reclaiming Alsace & Lorraine. Do they also make global warmore or less likely? As nothing seems able to stop them except other Levs, and they can freely wreak devastation on an ennemy’s heartland, would they be the equivalent of the cold war submarines & missiles fleets in preventing a conflict from extending too far? Lastly, the most important IMO, as they are causing a total reshuffling of cards, what of the lead England had in the real world in naval matters? Does it transpose here?

PS : mi,or nitpick here : that would be Dunkerque, not Dunquerque. Dang, I can’t wait for that game! *wink*
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Dunkerque-206a4020.jpg

Leo, have you painted a 1:1250 scale battleship before. If not, don’t ask for it.

Once again, I have to emphasize that the models in this game is going to be at 1:1200 scale. For those people who like white metal minis, ask yourself again whether you like to trackle something at that size. For those who have no idea how large it is, a battleship is about 5 to 8 inches in length. At a scale of 1:2400 or smaller, I would consider to have them unpainted. At that size, all the major manufacturers produce pre-painted minis. It is really a NO BRAINER to decide whether the minis in this game should be pre-painted or not. If you have no idea who Navis/Nepture is, you have not grown up yet.

So who’s the Capellans and who’s the Federated Suns?

Just kidding, things look pretty cool so far.

Thanks for the really great comments!

We’ve not announced whether they’re to be pre-painted or not because the decision’s not yet made. We’re thoroughly reviewing every option and its ramifications, along with what the box can bear cost wise, before making a final call one way or another. Your feedback is much appreciated in helping form our final decision.

And it would be ALL too easy to have the British be the FedSuns…and we’re trying hard not to let that happen…

Thanks all!

I realize the decision for pre-painted vs. painted minis isn’t made yet and I was voicing my opinion. I also realize that the opinion of others is completely different and just as valid. I was STATING MY OPINION, not attacking the other side for wanting something different.

Wildger, if you don’t want to paint that’s fine with me. All that means is you are a minis gamer and I’m a hobbyist. However, no matter what they do with ‘monsters,’ one of us will be left on the out. If it’s me, I hope the studio does a better job of painting their minis than the Marvel heroclix, and that the plastics aren’t near as flimsy as those style of pre-painted. I simply prefer to paint my own. Regardless of scale. Try painting the infantry models for Classic Battletech to a high standard. Not so easy, either. Oh, one last thing. I believe that BFG minis are of a similar scale and could have just as much, if not more, detail and many people not only play the game but (. . .GASP. . . ) have painted them to a very nice standard.

Randall, I’m sure you’ll make the best decision possible for ‘monsters’ and I really enjoy what you’re doing. Keep it up and I apologize for turning this thread into an argument.

Leo, I think that you are totally unclear the difference between BFG vs a true to scale 1:1250 scale WW1 battleship. They are not the same. I painted different types of minis as well, including GW, WM, Reapers, BFG and battletech. So, don’t call me a minis gamer. In BFG, the models have many ridges and you can do a lot of colorful scheme and highlights. You cannot do that with a WW1 battleship which has large smooth surface for the hull. You need airbrush to do it well. A realistic look is different from someone’s imagination in the fantasy world. That is no doubt that you still preferred non-painted but I doubt you get much fun from painting than working on other models.

One of the other main reasons why I favors pre-painted is that the game is set in the pre-dreadnaught eras with different nationalities attached. It simply does not go well if you paint the British or French fleet different from the historical color.

Try painting a 4 foot long Iowa class battleship =)
Took me a year and a half to build that thing. I love modeling and paint now and then, have tons of 1/72 air planes I have done of the years.

But I just want to open the box and play.

forgive my spelling and grammar errors. Had 4 or 5 too many beers. It has been a looooooong day.

I personally would not like to see anything like Navis Neptune, seeing as HMS Dreadnought sells for around $70.00. I don’t have the money to build a fleet out of ships that expensive.

I seriously doubt the company will be looking for an asking price of about 70 bones for some of the ships, that will shoot them selves in the foot.

I really hope the minis are plastic, easy to mod if you want to. And nice and light, pop them in a tackle box and off you go.

Too bad there is no edit button

wanted to say, depending on quality of the ships, I could see spending ~25 bucks for a larger size ship.

So….Flying battleships aren’t fantasy????? We know what color a Leviathan was painted according to History????? Randall and co. is still trying to decide pre-painted or not because it’s a no brainer????
…you were an ultramarine player, weren’t you wildger.

I’m sorry I called you a mini gamer. You prefer canon and I prefer the unique. How’s that. Me, I still consider myself a hobbyist because I spend more time painting the minis than pushing them around the table, and (obviously) I find the enjoyment in the combination of the two. Plus, this entire discussion between us only really proves one thing: we are BOTH geeks, and hopefully proud of it.

In my opinion, large flat surfaces only make it easier to have a unique paint scheme. Freehanding unique designs on the hulls of a flying destroyer sounds really cool. Just think of it as painting a WW2 submarine bright pink.

Sparx, thank you for being the comic relief.

Just checked out some of the Navis Neptun models, and I don’t believe they are a good comparison. Judging by the clear resin example from gencon, comparing that to NN is like comparing a historical miniature in true 28mm scale to the space marines of 40k. Both are soldiers, but from different Points of view. Just like the NN ships and those apparently coming from leviathans. If they had the little fiddly bits of the carriers in NN you’d have a point, but they don’t and could easily been done without resorting to prepainted.

For me, one of the main draws of the game is being able to paint those big beautiful ships myself, just as I do with my Battletech, Silent Death, Full Thurst, Space Hulk, and Blood Bowl figures.

I’m a miniatures guy, what can I say.

I’ve never been interested in any games that have pre-painted figures. They are more rubbery and the detail on the models is pretty low. While they may be more durable, they are just not that interesting.

So, if you’re taking votes, put me in with the unpainted and plastic crowd.

Also, for those that don’t want to paint, there are several brands of military spray paint what should do just fine for giving the ships a nice smooth colored finish.

And if you don’t want to paint at all, consider all the other games out there that have figures that are unpainted. The ones that are painted are typically *meh* quality and expensive.

Suggestion:
If the models are unpainted, perhaps include a decal sheet with each fleet to identify the nation the ship belongs to. Just a couple flags, ship markings, ship name, etc. That way, those who don’t want to paint can simply use the decals to help in differentiating the ships and add a little color to them as well. Us painters could dig this as well.

P.S.
More pics please.

Also, if the Lev minis have the same detail (or even similar) to the Navis Neptun miniatures, I’ll send you my first born. Just give me you’re P.O. box number or something.

(you pay freight of course)

Thank you Joe, I’m glad to see there’s another out there my thinking. Oh, and I don’t think they want your first born. The kid will be neglected with them focusing on the game some much and all. Plus, it’ll take away your in house rival for “Leviathans.” =)

OK, not to change the subject, and this may not be the best place for this, but you guys (Lev creators) should consider getting a Leviathans entry added to Boardgamegeek.com. If you anyone hasn’t been there, they should check it out. It’s basically a news/log/chat/resource site for every non-rpg/non-video game ever made.

It may be a bit early in development, but it would be a good avenue to get this game some more visibility.

Just a suggestion.

P.S.

As always, more pics. Prototype ships/greens/concept drawings/family photos/anything.

I emailed them and asked them if I could do it. You are suppose to have permission first.

Also asked if I could start a small forum for more free discussion. What would you like to see, fan fiction, official fiction, etc.

They don’t love me.

someone love me!

oh dear, its always trouble pp against bare, personally i prefer to paint my own, and yes i know all about size, i also use an airbrush for that size bulk, but i have also painted with brush, if they come painted i will still re paint areas to make them more personall, maybe thats the best idea, it does not matter to me if they come painted or not, its the game i want.
a decal sheet would be an excellent idea and relativly cheap as well
on a different note, where did you get the emaill address from?

@Joe, it’s probably a little early – I know BGG, it’s a great resource for obscure games I used to play back in the 70s and 80s, but we probably should get into print first And there will be forums; but Randall’s got the helm on those sort of details.

hey all;
chalk me down for non-painted plastic as pref. ( and yes, decals for the not-so-brave is a good call ). If they come PP then, as with any other PP model game I have, I’ll highlight them or mod them or whatever it takes to alleviate the ” itch to paint “.
…erm…I have to agree with Leo’s point about flying battleships…it IS fantasy. You can paint them with an altered paint theme because it is an altered reality ( I personally wouldn’t go overboard and paint them pink or anything like that though…but that’s just me ).
On a closing note, and being a gamer at heart, I also cannot wait to start building all of the peripherals for my table that would go with the game ( i.e.; small buildings / fields / floating mines / clouds etc… ). It’s all about the aesthetics

– wetdigestive

It is fantasy, but look how detailed and true they have kept the structure of its historical counterpart. Painting it as some odd color (with the exception of a few razzel dazzel camo schemes) would not really fit in with the true nature they are going with.

Sorry, guess my humor really is that bad. I was referencing the “Operation Petticoat” movie with Tony Curtis and Cary Grant. At one point, they try to repaint their WW2 submarine, but they only have some red and some white so the thing spends most of the movie painted pink. I wouldn’t paint a leviathan pink, probably mostly metallic to be honest. I was just trying to make a joke.

like I said…..bad sense of humor.

I am fully aware of what you were connecting with. The Germans had some Armor that that was painted Pink in WWII.

True you can paint ships any color you want, whether the minis shall be pre-painted or not.

I was drawing to the conclusion the most ships were basic shades of Grey, there are some excellent books and sites out there. Japan had 4 primary shades of gray.

few ships would have that interesting looking color and camo scheme if you were to keep ships in relation to their historical counterpart.

In conclusion, would be best suited (at least for me) if they were just pre-painted there basic shades of grey with a few Razzle Dazzle scheme that are suited when needed. Painting ship after ship with gray gets monotonous, it is also easy to repaint.

As for telling ships apart from their camo scheme, just in reality most ships were told apart from their serial number, not by a camo scheme. If you were close up to a ship you would be able to tell the difference by the shade

for example the SMS Deutschland built by Germaniawerft used a lighter gray than AG Vulcan Stettin who built the Pommern. Same class of ship, different companies.

Again, if you want to want some freak stuff on your ships, more power to you, I prefer them to have more connection with their historical counterpart.

Not gonna disagree. But you did bring up an interesting question; When/if produced, will the ‘HMS Enterprise” come with the serial # 1701?

Just asking

in seriousness though, I’m not going to criticize anyone for painting their miniatures they way they want, historically referenced or not. I just don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for exercising their right to ask for the chance to start with a “clean canvas” straight out of the box. It’s a request, not a demand.
And actually, this may be the first game where bare pewter minis (or even that plastic grey) would fit right in, especially if washed with black to bring out some plating. just a thought.

[QUOTE]I just don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for exercising their right to ask for the chance to start with a “clean canvas” straight out of the box. It’s a request, not a demand.[/QUOTE]

No one is criticizing. The pre-painted camp is putting their word in just like the camp for unpainted.

Sorry, I’m just a little touchy on the subject seeing as I feel like I was personally attacked earlier in the thread. So I guess this is my pink flagship delivering an olive branch to Sparx’s multi-grayed fleet.

Here’s hoping they decide to release both prepainted AND unpainted box sets and use the sales figures to determine the fate of the rest of the releases. That way we can all play with at least some of the figures in our style.

I’ve yet to see a pic of mini for this game despite looking everywhere… knowing me it somewhere easy to find and I’ve over looked it.

I would usually be sitting in the unpainted camp. Just because I like to paint and convert things. Especially if having a fleet of mini’s it be nice to add individial touches to give some indentification between the ships. Plus create some of my own personality between ships rather than buy the canon personalities for my fleet. But then again that could be done with pre-painted mini’s with a bit of paint. So I suppose either way is good.

But when I first saw this site I honestly thought these would be unpainted mini’s.

Plus as stated before pre-painted mini’s don’t always seem to have the same qaulity as unpainted. If this game goes pre-painted I hope it bucks this trend, so modification if one chooses to do so, is easier.

The only ‘mini’ so far are is a pic of a clear master cut and displayed just for gencon. Go to the home page and hit the ‘older’ button once, then scroll down. it gives me hope.

I can see why it gives you hope Leo. It brought a warm tingle to me heart, but that could of been the beer.

I think after seeing that demo mini.. I’m firmly in the unpainted camp.

Just as a question, how many of you have had experience with the “MechWarrior: Dark Ages” and “MechWarrior: Age of War” CMG? The minis for this were all pre-painted. Despite this, the earlier series were very well painted. Some of the paintschemes were simple – eg. base green, blue highlights, a little metal drybrushed on, occasionally some ‘dirt’ – while others were more contrasting but looked good – I’ve got a Banson’s Raiders Arbalest I won’t cut up/repaint because it’s just too good looking! I’ve also repainted over many of them with good effect – the paintjobs were light, and I didn’t bother stripping them.

Admittedly some of the later paintjobs were … less good. Bright day-glo primary colours, heavier layers of paint, poorer quality. But you could still paint over them without stripping.

(BTW, I don’t believe we’re looking at the folks who made/painted the MechWarrior CMG minis for Leviathans.)

What are your stories about repainting pre-painteds? Which were good, which were bad, and what seemed to be the key differences?

Honestly, the material is just as important and in my opinion, to this point there have been few pre-painted minis I’ve had that have good painting over good plastics.

Aesthetically, the combination has completely turned me off to them all together (so far). The marvel heroclix paint jobs and plastics were so bad, I didn’t even want to repaint them due to the ‘cheap’ feel of them and some of the pre-painted DA stuff you’ve mentioned has floppy weapons, twisted turret mounts, etc. While this may keep costs down (can’t blame you there), and may even prolong the life of the mini, I just don’t like them.

Combine that with the fact that I’ve heard horror stories (including a couple of my own)about trying to strip the prepainted and ending with a pile of ‘plastic goo’ or smooth minis with no detail or other melting monstrocities. It may be the chemicals used, but it still doesn’t work for me.

I would strip and repaint them if they were good, solid minis, but if I try to paint over a ‘studio paint job’ it ends up looking like junk and ultimately I abandon the game for my crappy looking figures (honestly yes, whether my fault or not). I would also try to spray over them with primer and a lot of the sculpts, don’t appear to have held go detail in the first place and worry I’d lose even more. Nevermind the fact that, as obvious from my previous posts, I think a big draw for the minis hobby is the ability to have completely unique figs.

Now AT-43, and on rare occasion the DA stuff, does show some progression in pre-painted, but they still feel somewhat cheap to me. The big exception I can think of is the DnD mini prepainted dragons. however, the larger size may be the reason, combined with the centerpiece aspect of them.

Here’s hoping this is helpful and that Leviathans finds a good way to buck the trend.
I do realize I am the loudest voice in this for bare minis, and I thank you for viewing everyone of my rants. These are just my longwinded opinions and take them with a grain of salt. The last I will offer is that I’d be willing to wager that the miniature gamer community will be divided 50/50 on this. So again, do what’s right for your company.

Now I have to be nosy, even if you can’t or choose not to answer: in prepainted miniatures, is a softer plastic used to off set the cost of having them painted or is the price the same with or without paint?

Oh, and just to answer your question: When our Demo Corp guy saw the MWDA stuff was on sale, after the rule change and again after the topps announcement, we regularly use his large collection of ‘clickietech’ in CBT scenarios.

If anyone is looking for an example of what can be done with pre-painted minis, check out what is available from the AT-43 line. I have not had a chance to physically handle any of those figures, so I cannot say if they are as “rubbery” as the typical pre-painted figure, but the detail on them is outstanding. Especially on some of the larger pieces.

However, this does come at a cost. I can’t say what people would be willing to pay for a fleet of, say, 8 ships. I could see $75-$100+ US for what I would consider a single typical (or even starter) fleet of a quality similar to some of more detailed AT-43 figures. The larger robot like figures are $40 a piece. They are roughly what I would consider a Battleship size figure.

If a figure is of a high enough quality that wouldn’t be compelled to paint it, I would would have to really consider the cost in purchasing a fleet of such figures.

On the other hand, if the quality is such that I would like to repaint, why would I want to pay the extra cost of purchasing something pre-painted in the first place.

It’s a tough call and really depends on the final paint quality/cost of the figures.

I play AT-43 every now and then

the mechs I never found rubbery at all, the body is hard plastic and guns/arms move. Some of the lights and a few of the guns are a hard rubber. Paint quality is fantastic. I started playing when they were 32 bucks a pop, then it increased by 8 bucks. They are quite big, about the size of a soft ball (roughly). I don’t expect a prepainted ship for Leviathans to cost that much, though ~5″ is quite big, at the scale and colors used I don’t see it costing 40 for a big ship. Though it also depends on quality of paint and sculpt too.

The War at Sea minis have carriers that are about 6″ and sell for about 10 bucks on average, 25-35 when there is a new set on ebay.

Though it is not really fare to compare the quality of most prepainted NON-collectible games with prepainted random-collectible games. As I have seen from various games the ones where you buy what you want is often higher quality.

Have to agree about the ‘rubbery’ concerns. Considering the scale of the miniatures, the detail needs to be crisp, or the sense of size will be lost, and the miniatures will wind up looking ‘toylike’.